The Criteria
So what am I doing here? Just throwing names on a list at random? No I spent a lot of my quarantine thinking about this, and working on this.
There are equal parts art and science. Yes I'm using WAR and advanced metrics and all that, but also using the eye test if I saw the guy or there is an abundance of film available. Also asking my dad who obviously saw a good amount of these guys for his thoughts.
Stats matter. They aren't the end all, but they certainly matter. It's how we compare players. 3000 hits matter, 500 homers matter (although less by era, we'll cover that below). I'm not nerdy enough to think wins don't matter, I think they do.
A Transcendent Run Counts For a Lot. The Koufax rule. He really only had 6 good years but those 6 were as good as anyone who ever did it. That matters. See also Pedro.
Post World War 2. So basically 1945-now. This gets tricky with guys who straddled the war. Basically if a decent amount of their career/achievements are post war they're good to go, think Williams and Dimaggio, we're not going to pretend 1941 didn't happen for either of them. Williams played til 60. Dimaggio only played til 51 but that puts half his career post war and he's Joe Dimaggio. Guys who just miss out are the Hank Greenberg and Bill Dickey types.
Major League Baseball Only. If this were the best baseball players period you'd see Martin Dihigio and Satchial Paige etc. Also probably guys like Omar Lineras.
Defense Matters. I had an argument with someone I really respect that was maintaining that positions shouldn't factor in to HOF voting and that Robbie Alomar's offensive stats are similar to Johnny Damon and they are just as worthy of the hall as each other. I damn near lost my mind. You spend half this game on defense. Again eye test comes in but also some UZR and stuff like that, but defense matters. Taking away runs is important too.
Peer Opinion. I did as much research as I could on this. Using oral histories like Danny Peary's We Played The Game and others. If really good players think you're a really good player, you're probably a really good player.
Context/Era Matters. Are Eddie Matthews 500 home runs worth more than Sammy Sosa's 600? I think so. Size of the league, quality of pitching, the way the game was played etc. As for context. Jackie Robinson's stats in a vacuum are very good for a second baseman, but when you factor in that he put them up while breaking the color barrier, they're insane.
Jeff Kent hit more home runs than Joe Morgan, but Jeff Kent hit more home runs than Joe Morgan in a time when he damn well should have.
No One's Banned Here. Pete Rose, maybe a bad guy, maybe bet on baseball, someone got all those hits. Barry Bonds, maybe his hat size grew a little during his career, still one of the best.
Might Have Been Is A Slippery Slope. Feller, Williams, Dimaggio, lose years to WW2, Orlando Cepeda and Tony Oliva lose time to injuries. Herb Score never really gets a career. We can think about these things, but we can't invent history.
Post Season. Can add to a resume, but not take away from it. If you do a Jack Morris and throw a 10 inning 1-0 shutout in Game 7 of the WS, that's gonna help. Ernie Banks will not be penalized for not playing in the post season, he's 1 guy on a 25 man roster. Not his fault he wasn't a Yankee.
There are equal parts art and science. Yes I'm using WAR and advanced metrics and all that, but also using the eye test if I saw the guy or there is an abundance of film available. Also asking my dad who obviously saw a good amount of these guys for his thoughts.
Stats matter. They aren't the end all, but they certainly matter. It's how we compare players. 3000 hits matter, 500 homers matter (although less by era, we'll cover that below). I'm not nerdy enough to think wins don't matter, I think they do.
A Transcendent Run Counts For a Lot. The Koufax rule. He really only had 6 good years but those 6 were as good as anyone who ever did it. That matters. See also Pedro.
Post World War 2. So basically 1945-now. This gets tricky with guys who straddled the war. Basically if a decent amount of their career/achievements are post war they're good to go, think Williams and Dimaggio, we're not going to pretend 1941 didn't happen for either of them. Williams played til 60. Dimaggio only played til 51 but that puts half his career post war and he's Joe Dimaggio. Guys who just miss out are the Hank Greenberg and Bill Dickey types.
Major League Baseball Only. If this were the best baseball players period you'd see Martin Dihigio and Satchial Paige etc. Also probably guys like Omar Lineras.
Defense Matters. I had an argument with someone I really respect that was maintaining that positions shouldn't factor in to HOF voting and that Robbie Alomar's offensive stats are similar to Johnny Damon and they are just as worthy of the hall as each other. I damn near lost my mind. You spend half this game on defense. Again eye test comes in but also some UZR and stuff like that, but defense matters. Taking away runs is important too.
Peer Opinion. I did as much research as I could on this. Using oral histories like Danny Peary's We Played The Game and others. If really good players think you're a really good player, you're probably a really good player.
Context/Era Matters. Are Eddie Matthews 500 home runs worth more than Sammy Sosa's 600? I think so. Size of the league, quality of pitching, the way the game was played etc. As for context. Jackie Robinson's stats in a vacuum are very good for a second baseman, but when you factor in that he put them up while breaking the color barrier, they're insane.
Jeff Kent hit more home runs than Joe Morgan, but Jeff Kent hit more home runs than Joe Morgan in a time when he damn well should have.
No One's Banned Here. Pete Rose, maybe a bad guy, maybe bet on baseball, someone got all those hits. Barry Bonds, maybe his hat size grew a little during his career, still one of the best.
Might Have Been Is A Slippery Slope. Feller, Williams, Dimaggio, lose years to WW2, Orlando Cepeda and Tony Oliva lose time to injuries. Herb Score never really gets a career. We can think about these things, but we can't invent history.
Post Season. Can add to a resume, but not take away from it. If you do a Jack Morris and throw a 10 inning 1-0 shutout in Game 7 of the WS, that's gonna help. Ernie Banks will not be penalized for not playing in the post season, he's 1 guy on a 25 man roster. Not his fault he wasn't a Yankee.
Todd Helton: Last 10 Out
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